“Lost” the time to watch
Sorry to be a loser again, but a little thing called life got in the way of me watching the show tonight. I will watch it online tomorrow so I can join in the discussion. Until then post away guys and gals.
-T
Written by Tyler on May 3rd, 2007 with
335 comments.
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Hell as much as i wanna be those two old guys from the muppets, i kinda liked tonight’s show. I have more respect for the writers even, just because they so blatantly insult their viewers and now i just find it humorous. The conversation between locke and ben while locke’s father was up against the tree was laughable as it was a pretty obvious metaphor for lost viewers. Not much happened though, but at least what did happen was significant. It just pisses me off that they all have the new iphone and i don’t.
i think i’d agree. at this point, watching the show just for entertainment (i.e. no greater significance), it isn’t all bad.
there were obviously point of ridiculousness, but locke seemed cool again, sawyer went bad-ass, jack revealed he actually isn’t trustworthy (tell her? tell her what?!?! i’m all aflutter!)…those are fairly notable developments for a show that tends to stagnate its characters into total dullards. i actually feel like they are building towards something, but i’ve been wrong before.
Juliet told Jack Ben’s plan, or of a plan to “help” Sun. This is what Juliet wanted to tell Kate. Sawyer knows, and he will tell the group of her mole role before she has a chance herself thus putting Jack in a precarious situation vis a vis Juliet and his original clan. He will have to convince them that Juliet came clean, or that she wants to help Sun.
I believe this is what they are building towards for the next episode.
I do not think Juliet is referring to Sun & the baby. The context would be all wrong. Kate was speaking of the phone and being rescued and the camp not trusting Jack. It wouldn’t make any sense for Juliet to confess to a plan to abduct Sun.
Sorry, I think you are wrong with this one.
(Mrs. Meister)
Laurent, you’re theories are so wacked and ridiculous that I am wondering if YOU are a writer for the show!
(Mr. Meister)
I think your split personalities are overwrougt.
-Merdmeister
Both my personalities think your reply is incomprehensible.
How novel! A troll trying to get a rise out of me, and so much so that it was reduced to posting two replies in one hour (mas o menos). A second post, I may add, which was reduced in typical trollish fashion to adolescentish (”wacked!”) ad hominem attacks more suited of a chubby bored tween (not a married redundant posting duo), whose parents won’t allow it to the mall to stalk and consume because it has no friends, and it has been particularly nasty since reaching those odd years when the pleasures of genitalia are rendered titilating on account of the onslaught of hormones, hormones that consequently made its face break out and has given it the overall appearance of a goalkeep for the provincial local’s dart team. This provincial hormone addled troll has no use for school, or even quick reference books that could have allowed it to made the discovery of the word o-v-e-r-w-r-o-u-g-h-t, a word it would rather dismiss, and dismiss in the context of my succinct reply. Now tweeny horney acne troll is bored, and holds contempt for its loving parents which spare it the embarrassment and ridicule of the judging runways of the local consumerist palace where its fellow tweens are gleefully gorging themselves on cin-a-buns and hideous gator shoes (all the rage), and is instead stuck at its computer updating its one-friend myspace account, tom apparently felt sorry for it, how congenial that tom, and is now stalking the boards looking to replicate conversation, the kind of which it could be having at the church of shopology over gooey stickybuns if it only had friends (friends that wouldn’t pick on it for pimples and plumpiness), through the sociopathic manner of instigating and
name calling for attention. I feel for you kid, but you bore me, off to bed now.
My adolescent part says, bite me. My college engineered part says, well, bite me too.
ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz…
Did it take both of you to “engineer” that brilliance?
Mrs. Meister here. All I can say is WOW. You put a lot of time and thought into that. Perhaps you are depicting yourself, because to assume you know us is absurd. My comments to you were what this blog is all about. I gave you my opinion on what you wrote about the show. You are waaaay to sensitive. Get a grip. My husband wrote something funny. Get a sense of humor, and for that matter, GET A LIFE!
I want to sue abc for false advertisement. Every week the announcer guy tells us that we shouldnt miss the next episode of lost because all of our questions will be answered, but instead more questions arise.An example of this is that some people die and they stay dead, others come back to life without explanation.
Also in previous episodes the mayor of munchkin town AKA Ben says that no one can ever find the island but some chick in a helicopter has no trouble getting there. And whats up with the french chick? She walks in grabs dynamite and then she leaves, why is she even in the show?
Lost reminds me of a mexican comedian named “Cantinflas”, he would talk and talk but at the same time he would say nothing at all.
ABSOLUTELY. What the FUCK was Rousseau doing in that scene?
I mean, one could look at it and say, hey, the crazy bitch was getting some dynamite and maybe we were supposed to go OOOOH what is she going to do with that. OOOOOOH MYSTERY.
But what I was thinking is, why is there dynamite in a ship, which, despite appearing to be from the 18th century is, according to Professor Locke, actually a 19th Century Slave Ship. And fuck the era, why is their dynamite there at all, since DYNAMITE WASN’T INVENTED UNTIL 1866, one year after Slavery was outlawed in the US and about 60 years after the British Navy defacto eliminated slavery on the high seas.
So, either we have some crazy ass slave ship from Africa, which having dodged the British slave pickets, and somehow missed Cuba and Brazil and instead ended up IN THE PACIFIC OCEAN just in time for a passing ship to sell dynamite, only to crash land on an invisible island — that despite being invisible– they intended to MINE????
OR, we have some REALLY STUPID WRITERS, who couldn’t spell “PLOT” if they had a dictionary in front of them. Shouldn’t Rosseau have like, 2 finger by now with all the arrows and unstable dynamite she has been handling.
AND CHRIST ALMIGHTY: If you’re going to have a character in a scene AT LEAST HAVE THEM DO SOMETHING.
Heh, heh… that was an awsome post!
You are very childish and very vulgar. Can we PLEASE keep the cursing to a minimum? It really tarnishes an otherwise great site. Thanks
Quite honestly nobody under 13 should be watching a TV show with so much sex & violence. So nobody visiting this site should be under 13 either. Anybody older than that should be able to handle a little salty language. If it really bothers you, ask Tyler to put a rule up about foul language. I would be more than happy to oblige him myself. However, from what I can tell about his personality- it ain’t gonna’ happen. I don’t mean to sound like a jerk, but most of the folks who post here find the cursing funny. I know it’s immature, but it is what it is…
A little cursing IS funny, but Evil seems to think if he uses every foul word in the english language, it will embellish his post. It doesn’t. It just makes him crude
Fuck
Poop
BALLS! Dangitt, I think Evil & Matt are wearing off on me…
Fuck? Poop? Balls? Cum on guys…knock it the shit off!
Damn it.
Doody
Mr Evil you are a victim of too many assumptions, and assumptions are what this show feeds off of and exploits. Not to be so coarse, but please get a clue already.
-We do not know where the island truly is
-Again: Slaves ≠ Africa.
-19th century = 1800s
-Again: A slave ship also refers to a “slaver”, a coastal ship where the indentured/captured/imprisoned, or enslaved are forced to man the oars.
-Maybe it was an Indonesian Slave ship, an outlaw slave ship, etc…?
-Slavery still exists today!
Yes slavery still exists today in the most backward primitive parts of the world, but it died in most of the world except maybe Cuba, Brazil, parts of Africa, and anywhere the British navy went after 1820, it went away. We, the Americans, were the big outlier in the modern world, the primitive backwater that we were….
Assumptions: I suppose I am guilty of using logic and figuring they would still be in the pacific. And that Captain Hook-looking ship didn’t appear to be like, an indonesian junk or a lanteen sailed vessel, so I am guessing it was from the west. I suppose it could have been a “slaver” impressing people into manning the oars, if it wasn’t so clearly a masted, sailing ship that doesn’t use oars.
See this kind of rationalization is exactly what makes this show so absurd. I’m making logical assumptions about something that has no reason to it at all. It’s a freakin’ soap opera.
Touche. Mea Culpa.
Oared slave galleys had masts, particularly ones from the 19th century (that would be 1800s). The lanteen slavers did have oars, and sails, this point you are missing.
But does it even matter? You are missing the forest for the trees with this pedantry.
This doesn’t make it absurd. Smoke beasts and polar bears and time travel does, but then that is the point isn’t it? You are illogical in trying to use your flawed logic in a fantasy world without any. Go challenge yourself by picking apart an episode of Nova.
You just want to argue, I see.
Since you’re an expert in 19th Century (that is the 1800s) sailing technology, and you probably spend the weekends pondering on the best way to rig your slaver, so tell me what this is
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Black_Rock_(ship)
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:BlackRockShip.jpg
You are telling me this could be an indonesian ship? What other misconceptions am I making given the wealth of information I am clearly presented. I didn’t even know there was a Lostipedia until now, but apparently thousands of other people have been fooled into thinking too much as well.
I don’t think any of us are being pedantic about this show, when it clearly expects us to use reason to decipher the “conspiracy” from clues given to you, and then has complete non-sequiturs.
You tell me there are smoke beasts, polar bears and time travel, that everyone is connected and that the island heals and kills people; okay I can suspend my disbelief for absurd shit that justifies the genre, like faster-than-light travel in Star Trek or vampires in Buffy.
But there is a point where reasons steps in, especially given the number of times this show has tried to explain away past stuff with common causes, or elaborate rational explanations. Otherwise there are no rules at all and you can’t follow the show.
I’m not even looking for a “big answer” to Lost anymore, since it really has no point.
But when the show takes a dump, I’m going to say it smells.
So assume that old dynamite doesn’t blow up, the Brits still traded slaves after dynamite was created, that a 70 year old square rigged oak ship was still in use in the 1870s, and that it sailed the wrong ocean looking to mine stuff.
I will ignore all that. Forgive me for being pedantic.
But when crazy people come to grab dynamite and all you can say is “Hello Rousseau,” you are either the stupidest person in the world or the character of bad bad bad writing.
And one last thing. Pick apart Nova?? You’re putting Nova on the same scale as Lost? No wonder it’s being cancelled.
www.whynovasucks.com is probably available if you want to start it.
Yes, slavery was outlawed in the US, etc, but that doesn’t mean that slaves weren’t still traded. I think it’s plausible that this slave ship was there with dynamite. Now, you failed to mention the obvious problem, why the hell is it so far inland?
A wizard did it.
Or a tidal wave.
That’s more probable in the Lost world.
There are no wizards. People just put leaves on their feet.
also i noticed that Sayidd said that he had never seen a phone as sophisticated as that one. But somehow he figured out how to make it work. Last time i checked phone companies put out a new phone every week, so i doubt he would know how to make it work, unless the island they crashed into is Gilligan’s Island, if thats the case a couple of coconuts should solve all their technological problems.
What I want to ask is, DID ANYONE OF THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WATCHING THIS SHOW ACTUALLY EXPECT THE PHONE TO WORK???
I mean, HELLO. This has only been done to you like 1,000,000 times, just like Kate getting captured, or Sawyer losing a fight, or people-not-torturing-others-for-information.
The phones and radios don’t work, the submarines get blown up, the manuals get burnt, and no one is the wiser.
I was actually looking forward to this episode after reading an article in the USA Today (I know, I know, why waste my time reading that rag?) that ballyhooed the episode as a return to what made Lost great. I’m now convinced that the USA Today must be on the ABC payroll — is it owned by Disney too?
Anyway, the only major revelation I guess was Sawyer’s connection to Locke’s daddy — which has been known for months by anyone who even casually pays attention to Lost fan boards. I was disappointed when Sawyer killed “daddy” (or did he?) because the guy who plays him is one of the few decent actors on the show.
At least we didn’t have to suffer through another pointless, overdrawn off-island flashback — although Locke’s on-island flashback was almost as unendurable. I suppose there is an explanation as to why Locke had to murder his daddy to prove to the Others how damn “special” his is, but I have a feeling it will make little sense. So if I go out and choke to death some old enemy who scammed me, will that make me “special” too?
I also scratched my head at Rousseau’s cameo appearance. “Monsieur, remember moi, the crazy francais madam, non? Ooh, pardon moi for disturbing your dude fest, I will recherchez the TNT and reconvene at chez la lune, bon soir!”
I could go on, but I need to cancel my subscription to the USA Today before I go to bed.
You suscribed to USA Today. Snort. Just kidding dude. My best friend reads the Star. I feign contempt but actually look forward to accidentally stumbling upon an issue in the john or in his car. We all need our quota of trash and guilty pleasures. Gobble gobble.
Look guys, I love to make fun of Lost as much as anybody, but you guys seem to be really reaching to criticize this epi. It was very, very good especially by Season 3 standards. The interaction between Sawyer and Locke was great acting. Watching Sawyer throw Locke to the ground and choke the life of that self-righteous pig of a Dad was great. Seeing Rosseau take the dynamite is called “foreshadowing”, not a cameo. I think there was some real substance to last nights show. The flashbacks actually filled in gaps, not meaningless for once. Sayid can fix a piece of equipment even if it more sophisticated than one he’s seen, because that is his talent. Not a stretch at all. The only negative I could find is the “super secret keep it from Jack” crew is just lounging on the beach while working on said radio, thus giving Kate (Lord I can’t stand her) a chance to saunter up and catch them, then tell Loverboy.
I am no apologist, but, good grief, give Lost its props, it was a decent episode. Don’t be so bitter you can’t enjoy the show anymore.
I agree with many of your points. The episode was much better than usual; however, i just can’t give em pats on the back for good acting moments. I mean they are called actors; i would hope they can act well. But yeah seeing the old man murdered was great. I just hope he actually is dead.
the old man who got murdered was one of the best characters in the show, because as a viewer i really actually disliked him, he’s a good actor
Yeah, and it was awesome acting to see the surprise and terror in his eyes as Sawyer choked the life out of him!
Blargh! I had just written a thoughtful and incisive post rife with wit and charm… and then for some reason it just disappeared… you’ll have to take my word for it, it was great.
In brief - the only complaint I had with last night’s ep was that Ben has passed from ordinary villany into cartoonish super-villany, which is to me less interesting. But other than that, I have to admit I enjoyed it - it was a solid 42 minutes of entertainment.
In terms of story arc, thank all the gods and four-toed statues that some of the Losties have finally wised up and stopped thinking Jack is somehow King of Mystery Island. Desmond’s little smack-down of Charlie and Hurley was so refreshing.
As for the complaints about Rousseau just showing up, grabbing a case of dynamite and disappearing with no explanation - um, her character has ALWAYS done wacky shit for no obvious reason whatsoever, right since day one. I agree that in seasons 1 and 2 we had more patience for stuff like that, but I have to argue that her weirdness last night was in character - and it didn’t bug me as much as Sayid being dumb enough to work on the “secret” radio behind a foot-high shrub within hearing distance of the beach camp… but I digress. If I can love my husband even though he always forgets to take out the garbage, I can enjoy the show even if details are often annoying.
agreed…
but re: sayid, why does he even threaten people anymore?!? we’ve seen him posture then wuss out time and again, then last night he tried to be snide with the chopper pilot and she came back with “remind me not to rescue you” and sayid’s balls receded firmly back into his abdomen somewhere.
while I thought last night’s epi was ok, the writers don’t seem to be able to make any character consistently interesting…or consistent in any way (unless it’s boring and annoying).
Funny how those accidentially deleted posts suddenly assume the golden luster of genius. Reminds me of the best paper I ever wrote for my English degree. “Homoeroticism in Beowulf”. Just forgot to save during the 12 hours that I sat writing it. Computer crashed and died. Gone. I’m sure it was brilliant, Hannah.
You see? You feel my pain. It really was good. Or at least good enough to get me a staff writer job at ABC.
I enjoy the fact that Jack is losing his allure, and his grasp on control of the survivor tribe. Yet, I can see them going full circle where Jack will yet again be the exalted one.
Sayid needs to get in touch with his misogynistic mohammeden side.
“I didn’t tell you to talk blasphemous whore-dog of a women, by the grace of Alla’s most holy hand I will burn you and your tribe for your deceit and disrespect!” He then makes an effigy of the Italian pilot and burns it, meanwhile inadvertantly setting fire to Hurly in the commotion (as this is how most of these manifestations end- ironically).
Also, he should have heel stomped Kate’s head against a palm stump. How dare she make demands on Sala-a-Sayid!
Kate is now, by far, the worst character. If anyone deserves a pike through the throat it’s her.
Last night’s episode was extraordinarily frustrating. It did make me realize that I still enjoy the show despite its many shortcomings. I think the number of four-letter words that came out of my mouth as Kate told Jack about the iPhone and the rescue party really surprised my wife. I want resolution so badly, but I still want to see what happens next, but nothing really will change until the beginning of a new season, and that keeps pulling me back. Gah!
Here are my demands:
1. Over the next 3 episodes, Kate, Juliet, and Jack die– one per episode, and in that order for a good season finale. I don’t care if Vincent reappears to do the job, just get it done.
2. Next week’s episode needs to feature flashbacks from a Lostie who was on a reality show before the crash. That show…. THE MOLE. IT TIES IN SO NICELY. And also, Locke’s dad comes back to life, runs around with that hood on, hits a tree and dies again. I want some goddamn comic relief if you aren’t going to answer my questions, and I don’t want it to come from the fat clowny guy.
3. The Dharma Initiative. Remember that, writers? The coolest part of the show that carried you through a good 2nd season? You need to tell me that Rousseau is one of the last surviving members of the Dharma Initiative and she went mad. She’s got dynamite now and she is gonna bring the hostiles some pain. I want flashbacks of her at Dharma so we can possibly answer some questions before we start a new season. For that matter, Vincent. Vincent is a Dharma member, he’s 105 years old, and he’s flashin’ back to the good old days. Having feasted on Kate’s human flesh, he’s got a taste for revenge against some Hostiles! Tune in next week when all your questions will be answered! It’s a game changer! Don’t tell me that it’s out of line with the show, you guys pull crap like this all the time and explain it away with, “oh, I was lying”. “Oh, wait, it looks like I wasn’t lying I was just manipulated– wait, nope, still lying.”
On another note, my parents have just started watching the 2nd season and I feel sorry for them having seen season 3. Maybe they can watch it on DVD, skip 75% of the season and still get some enjoyment out of it.
Bitter? Me? Yes! This show has such possibility, but I hate the feeling of being strung along that I get every week. Another frustrated viewer here, who still won’t stop watching this damn show. Jerks.
OMG maybe if we all post about it, they will do it.
Kate dead first, from infected dimple. Then Jack slits his wrists. Hurley tries to eat Jack’s boday. Sawyer gets mad and fights Hurley. Hurley sits on Sawyer. Vincent eats Hurley. Dr. Botox eats Vincent and turns into Vincent and runs into woods never to be seen again.
Vincent a member of DHARMA?? HAHA thats gold!!!
Come on, you silly little beotches! You don’t have to gift-wrap every post on this site in some kind of anti-Lost rhetoric — if you (gasp!) enjoyed the episode, just say it. You don’t have to break out the “well, now that I’m viewing Lost merely as a television show instead of the answer to every existential inquiry I’ve ever posed the universe, this episode totally ruled, dude!” stuff or relentlessly look for minor deficiencies in the episode. You could do that with any television show out there, no matter how much ass you believe it kicks. Just enjoy the ride, man. That’s what television is for. I mean, what greater purpose do you think Lost has? Is Claire going to identify a workable cure for cancer that can be applied to the real world? Come on, already.
As far in consistency in characters goes:
Real people are inconsistent. I’m inconsistent. Why are we holding these fictional television show characters to higher standards than we’d hold ourselves? And it’s actually been well-established that Sayid is trying not to be so threatening to people, hence this season’s Sayid flashback. If he has a sudden burst of emotion where he starts acting like his old torturing self again, hell, I find that incredibly consistent with his character development.
Obviously (because I’m me) I loved the episode — not just as a good episode of Lost, but as a good piece of television programming. It was well-acted, well-plotted, and well-filmed. And it was written by the pair that everyone loves to hate, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.
qualifiers matter. If I still thought the show was high quality in the ‘complex’ or ‘depthful’ sense, I’d be you. But I don’t. So I’m not. If I thought McGyver was *lame* b/c nobody can actually build a working mobile phone out of gum foil and a toothpick, I’d have been frustrated weekly (I never actually watched McGyver…but you get the point).
Lost isn’t complex or deep. it is what it is. And if lowered expectations means I can enjoy an episode or two, they should count that as a victory…at least I’m watching, and that’ll help stop the show’s slide into irrelevance.
and I agree…the acting was generally better on all counts by all actors.
Dude Mcguyver was awesome! It’s okay to admit you watched it. I learned how to make dental floss out of fishing line because of him!
as for ‘greater purpose’, I never succumbed to the show having much of a purpose anyway. the ‘complexity’ i’ve alway referred to is the tangled web of a plot that they can’t quite seems to keep tight. they could’ve arrived at this point in the story arc in fewer episodes…but they stretched it.
as for consistency, comparing a tv character to a real person seems futile. if you don’t mind the characters seemingly spinning their wheels, good for you. I think it shows lack of clarity on the part of the writers.
and learn to take a compliment (as if it’s yours to take). this is *whylostsucks* and I said I generally enjoyed it…if I didn’t have any remaining reservations about the show I’d be joining the circle jerk on some other site.
Dude, chill the fuck out. I wasn’t really being that serious. What the hell is your problem? It’s well-established around these parts that I have my own opinions, that I’ll express them whenever and wherever I want, and usually they’re respected without having someone throw out some pointless vitriol. And you’re the last person I’d expect to pull that kind of shit. Besides, I was speaking in general and not responding specifically to your post.
You also know that I’ve fervently disagreed with people who consistently say “Now that I watch the show for entertainment, it’s okay.” It’s a TELEVISION SHOW. The entire purpose is to ENTERTAIN.
Please reread my first post. I have no idea where you got this line: “If I still thought the show was high quality in the ‘complex’ or ‘depthful’ sense, I’d be you” — from. I have never, ever said anything like that. I’ve said that I enjoy the show because it’s a television show that still entertains me, and because I don’t hold my television to the same standards that I’d hold a Hemingway novel.
Christ. Did someone shit in your cereal today?
A little defensive JT? It’s okay i actually thought your post was well-justified. I did like this episode way better than the last few. I can definitely appreciate you comment on inconsistent characters. I’ve complained about them being one-dimensional; now they seem to be a little more dynamic. Although i don’t find any of the characters that likeable, they at least seem more like real people.
I’m always defensive, dude. I kind of have to be, as I don’t generally expect people to shit their pants in complete and utter agreement at my posts. LostSkeptic’s posts are usually respectful and have some valid points, but I really didn’t dig his tone in this one.
I also don’t really like how it’s okay to rip an episode of this series to shreds under some kind of metaphorical microscope, but when I try to bring up some cogent points that might indicate that people are holding the show to a far greater standard than most famous literature, then people get pissed. Sorry if my opinions are diametrically opposed to, like, everyone’s, but I think they’re just as valid as any other poster’s.
Hell yeah! If we all agreed on everything, this would be one boring existence. Checks and balances is great and this wouldn’t be much of a discussion if no antithetical points were made.
wow…a bit of an over reaction, jt. I’m chill, are you?
I am now, dude, but your tone struck me as really confrontational, and I had no idea where it was coming from. Hence my heated reply. The “learn to take a compliment” line was what set me off, if you’re curious.
See, here’s a compliment to me: “That episode was good!” But no offense dude, you wrapped your compliment (which was that the episode was “ok”) in criticism that I felt was unwarranted and unfair, so I was left thinking that regardless of how good any individual episode is, you’re still going to find something wrong with it. Sorry if I misunderstood. Glad we’re cool.
again, I’d say on this site, saying it was ‘ok’ is fairly strong as far as compliments go. and I don’t remember throwing criticisms around unless you’re counting sayid’s “inconsistency”. and maybe that isn’t the right word, I wrote my thesis years ago and don’t really care to rigorously proof these posts like it’s a dissertation…
regardless, with sayid, my point was his posturing means little anymore. like a real life friend who says they’ll do something but never follow through, you eventually start to not believe them. I think sayid is that guy. we know he’s a puss and will back down, we’ve seen it for nearly 3 full seasons now, so why they continue to make him posture seems odd to me.
but back to my compliment…qualifying it matters. we’ve covered this ground i think, the show doesn’t get the benefit of my doubt anymore. so unqualified adulation isn’t likely from me. if i’d said “this was a good episode compared to the other turd sandwiches they’ve trotted out this season…” would that be better? ; )
i promise, you have no reason to take my jabs at the show personally, nor is my tone meant to be insulting. my apologies if that how it came across.
In the terms you’ve used, I can understand what you mean about Sayid now — I actually find it kind of hard to discount what you just posted, too, so there you go. I guess a little clarification goes a long way.
And as for whether you’re gonna start raving about episodes and using lots of positive adjectives to describe them, yeah, I know, it’s unlikely that you’ll ever do that. I just kind of hoped you would, I guess. Wishful thinking, maybe?
maybe a little wishful ; )
i actully enjoyed the epi and didn’t find much “wrong” with it. every show has nitpicky shit, most if it last night didn’t seem to take away from the episode.
Here’s some insight as to why I’m super-defensive of last night’s episode. Take a stroll over to televisionwithoutpity.com and hit up the Lost forums. Then click on the “Bitterness Fiesta” discussion board link and read some of that shit.
Some of you guys’ll probably find some valid complaints on that site, but you can tell that most of it is whiny groupthink from people who just like to agree with each other. I just think the hatred of the show is really reaching absurd levels at this point, and think the writers should get credit where credit’s due, yknow?
credit for what? ruining a storyline that originally had potential.
we hold the characters to higher standards than we would real people because the second a giant smoke monster kills some random guy the show stops being real and your standards cant remain unchanged.
Good. I’m glad you two have kissed and made up. Thought I was going to have to step in for a second. I agree with LMeister and JT that this was actually a pretty good episode and that people appear to be going out of their way to find fault. That said, we must remain true to the spirit of this site. I think that it is an exaggeration to say that the acting was great and I do not agree with JT that we are holding the writers to an impossibly high standard by requiring that the characters at least have recognizable “personalities” and plausible (within the context of the show) patterns of behavior. Now about this last epi: I found it thoroughly entertaining. Everyone has got to admit that the last three episodes have been palatable. There was some good bit of acting by Sawyer (that chain choke on Lockes’ dad was pretty awesome) and a number of questions were answered (like what the heck has Locke been up to for the past couple of weeks). At the end of the day, if the show manages to get you to come back for more out of genuine interest rather than out of morbid curiosity at how much crappier the writing and plot will get, I think it has more than lived up to its obligation to viewers. This IS primetime American network TV, after all. It ain’t HBO. I have no complaints really about this epi, just minor observations about a few ridiculous moments: (1) the incongruous appearence of psycho-Frenchie. WTF was the point of that? (2) when the camera pans to Locke’s dad tied to that large tree trunk in the background… that was pretty silly. (3) when Locke picks up his father’s body-puppet (apparently after having carefully wrapped it in a sheet about 3 seconds after Sawyer finished the job) and daintily starts carrying it through the jungle. He could have at least pretended that it was heavy. I’m looking forward to seeing Juliet get her come-uppance when Sawyer makes his triumphant return with the tape… And at this point, I would like to see Jack sodomized with a hot poker. Next one (is it the finale?) should be pretty good.
Gobble gobble. I’ll agree to disagree on the acting bit, ’cause that’s a matter of person taste. I think Holloway did a damn good job, but that’s just me.
On the character-consistency take, could you give me an example? That would make it easier for me to debate my point, if I indeed have one.
Crap. That hurt. I just lost a lengthy reply to your question. So here is yet another lengthy reply to your question. Okay, let’s take Sawyer, for instance. There is an example of a schizophrenic character. He is supposed to be a dark and cynical man. But his behaviour is simply not consistent with the hardened, callous con-man that is presented in the flashbacks. Would he really care about getting the support and approval of the group?: do you remember the roast pig BBQ/ping-pong episode? Good grief! Later, he is rendered helpless by Botoxia’s pathetic little speech about his past. After he gets the cookie from Kate, he’s concerned that she used him because she was upset about the Doc consorting with Botoxia. Gimme a break! After yet another night of unbridled passion, he follows Locke barefoot into the jungle and chokes a man to death with a chain to avenge the death of his parents. Of course, there is a reason why none of these characters’ behaviour from week to week makes any sense: it’s convenient. As I have said before, they are mere plot devices who bend to the needs of the story. The only departure so far is Desmond but even he is likely to disappoint ultimately. The writers don’t care about making them talk or behave like real people that we could actually relate to any more than they care about plausibility or a logical plot. Sayid is perhaps the best example of that. This man used to torture people and let’s not forget that only a few weeks ago he tortured Ben. But, all of a sudden when the situation calls for those killer instincts to kick in, he wimps out (for example, one particular situation called for taking a nail and hammer to Patchie’s testicles). I think this might have been the same epi where they featured the flashbacks about Sayid’s torture victim who’s husband captures Sayid, he inexplicably began to have moral pangs in the present. Where were those moral pangs about the past when Sayid was torturing Ben? Last week, somebody alluded to the fact that on a number of occasions, the flashbacks, which are merely intended to be instructive to the audiences, actually influence the mood and behaviour of the characters in the present (on the island). Complete and utter nonsense. By and large the flashbacks are just padding because there is clearly no interest in character development. As a result, despite all of those excruciating flashbacks, the vast majority of the characters are pretty flimsy and one-dimensional. See Kate and Claire, for example. Although the acting doesn’t help. In any event, how could there any depth and consistency to your characters if you are making things up from week to week?!
I’m sure I will take a lot of heat for this, but I think the flashbacks are important. You see, most stories build up the characters and then something happens, a conflict that all involved have to deal with. They solve the problem, we have resolution and the story is over. Lost on the other hand started with the conflict. Then, week by week, more is revealed about the characters and we learn more about them. I think the multi-levels is brilliant. Agreed, it is a lot to keep up, …but I still think overall, it is a masterpiece of writing.
Sayid for instance, was a Communications officer in the Iraqi Republican Guard and we learn from the flashback that he reluctantly learns the ’skill’ of torture. He doesn’t like it. He shoots himself to help Nadia escape, …very noble. He tries to stop his old college roommate from being a suicide bomber. I think that Sayid’s character is very consistent. I see a man that has faced many ugly things in life that has hardened him, but not killed him. He is still alive inside. He faces a battle inside daily. It is hard for a mans heart to experience so much feeling and emotion to such extremes.
I said all that to say, I think the show would be ‘LOST’ without the flashbacks. How else would we learn who the characters are? Their history gives us depth and understanding.
(Mrs.Meister)
“but I think the flashbacks are important.”
i think the flashback *were* important. we’ve bounced this around many times, but they (the flashbacks) no longer seem to provide anything really new about the characters. how many times do we need to see jack trying to fix something/someone??? and often the only ‘interesting’ thing about them is the little easter eggs (e.g. pic of the Oracle woman Des spoke to was on the desk of the monk, etc.).
You know, they made such a point of lingering on the “body puppet” shot I’m starting to wonder if it really is supposed to be a “puppet” of sorts. What if Locke knew AC wasn’t really dead & left him chained up there & tossed an old withered corpse in the sack to bring back to the Others. The ruse wouldn’t last long, but it might buy Locke enough time to do something he’s got planned. I could be reading too much into it, but the whole scene seemed very odd to me.
His dad will heal in time when he reaches Ben (due to close proximity).
This will prove to Ben the miraculousness of Locke’s gift.
This is what he intended from the beginning, to see if he can resurrect the dead.
“when Locke picks up his father’s body-puppet ”
at the risk of sounding particularly picky, I thought the same thing…that dude has to weigh 230lbs…not an easy thing to just toss on your shoulder. but again…small detail.
No more picky than actually believing that a 6 year old could have fathered a child. Good point, though.
i’ll agree that i’m looking forward to the shit hitting the fan when Sawyer busts out the tape recorder, and if the others try and carry out their plan to kidnap Sun
And possibly Kate?
first off, sawyer is unwatchable to me: he is too soap opera/usa low budget porno movay/silk stockings looking and acting. the only more unwatchable character is juliet.
second, ill I can think about is season two and the numbers plot. is that important or did we just waste our time for a whole season?
third, from what I understood, having only started to watch at the end of season 2, many people would be pissed if they explained the others knowledge of the losties as being through computer files, because the accuracy of what they new seemed over the top and psycich. is this true?
I think in the first season, and parts of #2, The Others were mysterious…and creepy…and almost super-human or omniscient or something. they appeared out of no where and in force.
that mystery is gone and with it anything really interesting about them. that probably was inevitable. but they do seem like pretty pedestrian villains now. in fact, they seem like little else than a bunch of cultists.
I hope they hurry up and bust out the Flavor-aid.
hmm, hadn’t thought of that…maybe they’re in jonestown.
They’re not even consistent with them being cultists. Are they the torch wielding, branding, baby stealing, self righteous cultists; or are they the satellite dish having, armed to the teeth, submarine travelling, airplane crash faking super villians from a James Bond parody?
There is no way. I repeat, there is no way they will kill off Sawyer anytime soon. He is now apparently the second most popular character on the show. Very sad that I know this. But trust me. Anyways, I like his ponytail hairstyle. It’s kewl.
Who’s the first-most-popular? Hurley?
Yep. People love funny fatties. Sad but there you have it.
Of course you didn’t watch the show last night. That’s very convenient. When the episodes kick ass much like the one last night, the Lost haters suddenly lose their thunder. Maybe you should have subcontracted Nico to write the opening slam this week.
If Bigjim wrote this, i would completely understand.
No BigJim will come rip me for saying there was a few things I liked about the episode. It’s OK though, I wouldn’t want it any other way.
Dearest Nico,
I hate to say this, because it will forever tarnish my far-rightwing posts, but last night’s ep of Lost was actually somewhat slightly kind-of enjoyable.
I just have to say a few things about Matthew Fox. I agree that the guy who plays Sawyer is a B-level actor (probably borderline C). He could probably do his best work slamming a Brazilian whore up against a brick wall in a European bondage porn. But at least he can show different emotions (even if they aren’t believable). Matthew Fox on the other hand is incredibly one-dimensional. He acts on Lost the same way he did on Party of Five: like a drooling little man-bitch. not that I watched that show, had a girlfriend who did). I mean, come on, this guy is supposed to be a 35ish surgeon who reacts like a middleschool girl whenever he doesn’t get his way. “no! Im not telling Kate our secret! na na na na n